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Episode 35: Milk, Entrepreneurship & Mindset with Cassandra Shuck

, , , , , , , January 27, 2021

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Jacqueline Kincer  0:38

Welcome back to Breastfeeding Talk: Milk, Motherhood, Mindset. I am your host, Jacqueline Kincer. And today’s episode, Episode 34 is featuring Cassandra Shuck. And Cassandra is actually a serial entrepreneur, she is just a powerhouse of a person. I had so much fun doing this interview with her. And just to kind of prep you just a little bit. We did go to a lot of different places in this episode, but I absolutely love it. And for those of you who don’t know, Cassandra, she’s really an entrepreneurial guide. But she wears a lot of other hats. And we’re going to talk about this on the show today. Now what’s really cool is that the tagline for this podcast is milk motherhood mindset. I actually feel like we really embodied all three of those pillars of the podcast in today’s episode, which is why I decided to title it milk entrepreneurship mindset. Now, it goes without saying with the milk comes motherhood. So I didn’t want to make it four words. But if you are, you know an entrepreneur, if you’re a practice owner, I know I have a lot of you listening to the show. If you’re a mom who’s thinking of starting a business is running a business, this is a really wonderful episode for you.


But even if you’re not any of those things, this is also a really wonderful episode for you. We talked about, you know, things to increase milk supply, we talked about birth trauma, we talked about just overall life trauma, and how that can affect breastfeeding and everything else. We talked about challenges and returning to the workplace, even if you’re not an entrepreneur, I don’t want to spoil it all. But we get into a lot of nitty gritty. The cool thing about talking to Cassandra, is that it’s like talking to an old friend. So even though her and I were doing this on zoom on completely different sides of the United States. I feel like we were having a little chat right next to a fireplace in a living room somewhere.


And my hope is that as you listen to this, that you can experience that same feeling with us and join us in on this amazing, enlightening beautiful, transformational conversation. Welcome to the podcast. Cassandra, I’m thrilled to have you on today. And I know our listeners are going to get so much out of this. And we were just talking about how we’re not really sure exactly where this episode is going to go. But it’s going to go to amazing places. I know that and just for our listeners, I’d love for you to just do a little intro, whatever you want to share that you feel like is relevant.


Cassandra Shuck  3:20

Absolutely. So thank you so much for having me super excited to be here and excited to see where it goes. Like I said, loved our conversation last time when you were on my podcast. So it’ll be it’ll be fun. I am Cassandra shuck. I am a wife and I am a mama to a feisty little three year olds, and I’m a bit of a serial entrepreneur is kind of the best way to say it. So I’ve invested in a lot of businesses kind of started a lot of businesses, some of which are in the birth and health and wellness spaces, which I know parallel. But that’s a little bit about me.


Jacqueline Kincer  3:56

Yeah, I love that. And I feel like, you know, you and I are doing different things, but we’ve crossed paths. And like she said, I was on her podcast, which is amazing. And I’ll link that up in the show notes. So everyone can check that out. But, um, you know, I I just love women who do lots of different things and follow their passions, and you’re really doing that and like you said, you’re a serial entrepreneur, which, you know, I I feel like there’s kind of two extremes sometimes that I find where there’s this kind of, you know, Mom boss thing, and then there’s like, it’s either that and you have to like hustle hard and, you know, really kill it and like, drink all the coffee and then drink wine and like there’s kind of this persona, right that I’ve seen that gets crafted on social media. And I think that that sets a lot of people up for failure. And I know there’s a lot of, you know, whether you’re a professional or you’re a mom and you’re listening to this or Whoever you are, sometimes we can feel like everyone else is just better than us. They’ve got it all going on, they must have some special talent, they must be lucky. But I feel like you’re really, you’re really balanced. You’re really just you’re just doing the thing or the things in your case, how do you do all the different things and be a mom and be you? And yeah, I’d love to hear more about that.


Cassandra Shuck  5:26

That is a question that I get pretty much from everyone. I mean, even in the grocery store, when I’m like, oh, yeah, I own a couple businesses. And they’re like, see my daughter, you know, basically becoming a tornado down an aisle, they’re like, how are you still saying. So I think my kind of my path and my trajectory is kind of lended itself to helping me be the way that I am and be in balance. So I laugh that you use the word balance as well, because my agency, his name is Tola. And it’s Sanskrit actually, and then for the words to bring back into balance. So it’s something that has always been near and dear to my heart. However, I wasn’t always like that. So that’s why I think honestly, I strive to, to have that balance to not Mombasa and, you know, do whatever coffee from 4am to 10am, and switch to wine at two or something like that. Like, that’s not my, that’s not my style. That’s not my MO.


Jacqueline Kincer  6:18

I love that. Because I think that I, I’m a person who I’ve tended to be really hard on myself. And so, like I opened my practice when my daughter was four months old, which looking back was probably way too early to be trying to start a business at that point. And then I ended up getting really busy, and I had to put her in preschool full time. And that was really hard. And I felt like I had all this mom guilt and I wanted to be with her more than it was great to be successful and making all this money and helping all these people. So you know, I, I’ve now come to a place of balance, like where you know, I would work, I would take her at 7am and not pick her up till 6pm. And I wouldn’t even take a lunch. And at the end of the day, I would go oh, you know what, I never took even a bathroom break today to like, now I’m kind of forced to be at home with my kids because of COVID and everything going on. So I just physically cannot work that much. But I feel more at peace, you know. So I’m still working out how to find that balance. But I do think balance is a good, good word. I love that you have that in your agency name.


Cassandra Shuck  7:29

Yeah, so I started my agency actually 11 years ago, and it was spiraled out of kind of a corporate trajectory in a corporate world where there was no balance, where I would be traveling 4650 weeks per year, all over the globe, constantly back and forth with agency partners, I was in charge of marketing for a large automotive company. And it was just not the life that I saw myself living. That was kind of my speed up until that point. So I didn’t know that it wasn’t was kind of incongruent with who I wanted to be until one day when I literally certain things in my body started shutting down autoimmune disease, or autoimmune issues started flaring up. Just like literally, I had a lot of feather moments, I had a lot of rock moments, have a couple bricks slung at me moments that I just kind of ignored them, which so often us as females do, we’re like, oh, no, I’ll just push harder, I’ll just hustle more, I’ll just, you know, get the next promotion, I’ll just get the next whatever level and and everything will be great, and it never is. So I started my agency out of that season of my life, which was really the first 25 years. That was very true for my childhood. And it was very true for really what I got myself into in college and what I got myself into for like, really my first corporate career trajectory. So my agency was literally the means to an end. It’s like, I need to switch this. And I’m seeing the writing on the wall for me, but then for my clients who are also getting burnt out fatigued, auto immune issues at you know, in their early 20s and 30s. Like, not when we should have our health being broken down. Wow.


Jacqueline Kincer  9:04

Yeah, I’m so glad to share that. Because I guess I’d love to learn more about your transition from well, if you know, it is a transition, but how do you take that speed and trajectory of your life and then become a mom.


Cassandra Shuck  9:22

So wasn’t quick. So I, I started the agency out of that, and I actually had a loss, but I was in when I was working in corporate I had a stillborn and it took me a while to recover from that and to actually get back and bodied and back in touch with my body and even to have the desire to be a mother after that. So that was kind of that was seven years it took actually to have that desire and a lot of that personal development, growth healing, self work therapy, all of the things essentially my my toolbox of self care was really what led me to that Return to actually having my daughter 40, almost 44 years ago getting pregnant having her three years.


Jacqueline Kincer  10:07

Wow, wow, that’s an you know, I’m so so sorry for your loss. I mean, that’s, that’s really hard. I’ve known a few women to go through that. And it’s I, you know, I don’t know, what do you say, you know, because it’s, you know, an enemy level of loss is always just very devastating. But I’m really glad that you took the time to do that work for yourself and support yourself through that. That’s amazing. Do you do you feel like that that last just changed your perspective on life in general?


Cassandra Shuck  10:44

I think a che i already had a different perspective of life than most just from my childhood in my upbringing. That really, it’s funny, because I mean, it was one of the things that I feel like happened to me, when you’re a child and you’re a victim of abuse. There’s not much you can do to change or to alter your situation. That was the first thing that actually felt like it was ownership of mine, if that makes sense. And then as we were talking kind of the before the podcast got started, I truly believe everything happens for a reason. And I don’t think a I was in an awful marriage, I don’t think I would have gotten out of it. Had I not had the loss. And I also don’t think I would have started to kind of dig into the the self awareness and self expression and self care that I did to even recognize that the job I was in was unhealthy. So I think there’s a lot of good that came out of it. It was actually four months after very similar to you is when I started postpartum doula ng as well. And I started bereavement doula hanging and holding that space for other women who are going through the exact same thing. And that for sure, would it I wouldn’t have known what to do, and it wouldn’t have even been on my radar had had my head my peace not happen. Hmm,


Jacqueline Kincer  11:55

that’s really beautiful. And what what you just described is post traumatic growth. And it’s really wonderful when we can heal ourselves and bring ourselves to that place. Because, you know, unfortunately, you know, I see people who who don’t enter that stage of the grief process, right. And so they’re, they’re kind of hung up on always the victim or unresolved anger, you know, can manifest itself in numerous ways, you know, work workaholism, or you know, so many things. So, I love that you that led you to do the doula work, specifically, being a bereavement doula, that’s very important work.


Cassandra Shuck  12:37

That’s exactly where I started. So I actually didn’t start in the labor support, because I hadn’t gone through training and things of that nature. But I started shadowing the woman who was a literally an angel who showed up for me. So I remember calling her you know, a couple months later and saying, I want to do what you do. And she’s like, What do you mean, you want to do what I do. I’m like, I want to be there. I want to help. But she’s like you still have more healing to do. I said, No, this is part of my process. I know how I work. It’s time and I need to be able to hold someone’s hand cry with someone grieve with someone because I’ve been there and I want to use and channel that for something positive.


Jacqueline Kincer  13:15

Wow. So how long did you do that? Were you still doing that, and I was still doing it


Cassandra Shuck  13:21

up until really COVID started to be honest with you. It’s kind of when I was living in Charlotte, North Carolina, it’s really what I was kind of known for. There’s not a lot of people who even step into that space, and 10 Step into the space with the full understanding and the full experience. So I was the girl that you know, you would call if someone had a miscarriage or an infant loss or stillborn or, you know, baby born with a deformity and would pass after birth, like I that was I was your go to girl for those cases.


Jacqueline Kincer  13:53

Yeah, and I think for some of our listeners, this will be awareness that people like you exist, because I think so many women are just going through this alone, and I had a loss myself before any of my kids came along. And I wish wish I had known that, you know, you were out there somewhere, you know, even virtually, oh my goodness, wouldn’t that be just so nice? You know,


Cassandra Shuck  14:16

honestly, one of the benefits of COVID is this hat I have I’ve always been able to work virtually nothing has changed. But just the awareness of being able to do that this space virtually, or the work that I do virtually has been has grown as well. Yeah. But I mean, it’s, there’s only so much one can process with a spouse or a partner or parents or even if they are the most supportive people in the world. They still had not actually physically gone through the that the you know, the the loss that you did, they didn’t physically feel you know, the child within you. And there’s a lot of things that they don’t know what to do or don’t know how to say or don’t know how to even hold space or or care or again, because they’ve had their own loss. They’ve had that own experience with that process? Hmm,


Jacqueline Kincer  15:03

I really resonate with that. Because I think it’s not that we can’t have someone be a professional and support us if they haven’t gone through it. But there is a different, deeper level, you know, and I think it’s not, I hate to say this, but like, it’s not that you’re not a good lactation consultant if you haven’t encountered a ton of breastfeeding challenges, but it definitely grew me and deepened my skills, not just clinically, but how to work with my clients. So you know, you can be trained to say and do the right things, but having gone through it, and really walking that journey with someone, that’s a special thing for sure.


Cassandra Shuck  15:47

Or I mean, even there’s also I believe, I’ve trained people in the prenatal space, and I’ve trained people in the bereavement space as well. And even to just be trained by someone who’s had that experience and kind of have second hand knowledge, I think is so powerful, because honestly, in a perfect world, no one would ever have to experience that loss. But there would still be people that can hold space.


Jacqueline Kincer  16:10

I love that. Yeah, what you have to share, you know, directly or indirectly, by helping so many people by training others, that is such a gift. So it’s wonderful, you’ve been able to do that, which, you know, that’s not the only work you do, because you said you’re a serial entrepreneur. So that is my


Cassandra Shuck  16:29

passion project, I call it it’s something that I would I would do for free 100% and have done for free in the past as well.


Jacqueline Kincer  16:38

Ah, I love that. That’s amazing. Well tell us about some of your other projects.


Cassandra Shuck  16:43

Yeah, so about four months, it seems to be our kind of pattern after my daughter was born, I was having issues with breastfeeding. While I was having issues with breastfeeding, let me back that up. Literally the day after she was born, my belt didn’t come in for about six, seven days, it took a took a minute. And obviously knowing the body and knowing kind of my story and my bereavement journey, my body was in 100% in trauma, my body did not know what was safe, we can go down the story of my birth where I had a 68 hour natural birth, which is not advised and not normal. But my body was just responding to what I had known from my past. So I had talked to a number of lactation consultants and being in the space that I’m in. A lot of them are girlfriends and you know, I’ve worked with and recommended and referred and she you know, I had I had that community built and just from the space that I was in, but a lot of them looked at me and said, Cass, you’re not going to be able to breastfeed. And I guess I’m the type of person that a few say you’re not going to be able to that lights a fire. And I think honestly a couple of them knew that. Because the minute they said that I was like oh, but watch me, like I’m going to do the exact breastfeeding diet of all of the foods, the galacticos I’m going to do all of the things I’m going to like I like even if I have to pump and breastfed, you know, bottle feed, which I did for a year and to all of the pumping mamas out there, I salute you and give you credit and bow down to you because that is like feeding three children. But I was like I’m gonna find a way and that’s exactly what we did and kind of birth the lactation support cookie company out of my salmon spinach, nuts, oils diet for very, very few, quite a few weeks.


Jacqueline Kincer  18:35

Ah, yeah. And, you know, I, it’s funny, because it might be just even a few days before recording this, I did make a social media post that said that. teas and cookies, don’t fix lactation problems. But if you read the caption, I do explain. Because I think the problem is, is that a lot of moms will just go rushing by product and they think oh, that’s gonna fix it all. But you talked about your larger diet and obviously, you have lactation consultants support and all the things too and, and not everyone needs every level of support. But I have moms who are like not even eating enough calories or good calories and then they’re like, but I bought the special brownie mix and you’re like, I mean, we can’t like no, we can’t


Cassandra Shuck  19:26

add a scoop of flaxseed to my smoothie and I’m like, oh goodness, no, I mean I don’t even even though I own a lactation cookie company and like my me and my husband is my business partner would probably shoot me for saying this like but no they’re not an end all be all solution for every lactation issue by any stretch. And I think they’re


Jacqueline Kincer  19:45

promising that they are absolutely fortunately seeing some really predatory marketing out there. But that’s why Yeah, no, I love your your product and you actually put a lot of thought into it. From what I’ve learned just talking to you and just even looking at your product, um, you know, I see some of these things where I’m going that is no different than like the Betty Crocker mix at the store. It has flax seeds in it, that’s it, but like, you know, so,


Cassandra Shuck  20:12

so to was on the market, I feel like as well, some of the products are, some of the products are made to get you the most milk as possible as quickly as possible without actually thinking about any of the long term stuff. Which for me, like, and actually, we’re having worked in kind of the birthing space, and like, that’s great if you want to breastfeed for four weeks, and that’s your goal. But if you actually want to do a year or two years, or two and a half years, or whatever the case is like whatever, you know, you’re calling on your heart is, like, let’s look at long sermons, which I’m sure you agree with to is let’s look at long term sustainability versus let’s get you as much milk in the first four weeks as possible, get you in gorge get you a status and then have you basically give up.


Jacqueline Kincer  20:55

Yeah, yeah, no, I love that. Because it’s, it’s about being like, I like that you called it a lactation support product. Because what you’re in your heart is in supporting, you know, mothers the way that you do. And so when you’re when you’re coming from that angle, now you’re running a company from a whole different angle and creating a product that’s really there to serve people, not just, you know, create a one time customer, and then you’re constantly seeking new customers, because your product doesn’t work long term.


Cassandra Shuck  21:28

Yes, so I’ve women, we both see it in the industry so so often as well, which is also one of the reasons why I do work with lactation consultants. And we do recommend them like I am one small piece of your pie of your solution. And if I were to tell you anything else, I’d be completely lying. Yeah, one small on one small little pie chart for you one small piece of the pie,


Jacqueline Kincer  21:50

or a cookie chart, but exactly. And I always tell people like


Cassandra Shuck  21:55

cookie perspective, who doesn’t love a cookie? I mean, that’s gonna produce some oxytocin right there.


Jacqueline Kincer  22:00

Right? Seriously, treat yourself because it’s hard enough as it is. Don’t beat yourself up about having a cookie. And if you’re gonna eat a cookie or minus, we’ll eat one that’s actually beneficial. Yeah, so there’s that.


Cassandra Shuck  22:12

It’s just saying,


Jacqueline Kincer  22:15

that is a good point. I have a lot of people go, socialize, still keep eating this. And I’m like, do you enjoy eating it? And they’re like, No, it tastes terrible. And like, then probably not like, it’s so


Cassandra Shuck  22:29

funny. Because now, you know, we’ve been around for almost four years, and we have people who don’t even have like, they’re not breastfeeding anymore. And they’ll be like, I just really had a craving for your cranberry cookie. And I’m like, okay, so they ordered or their husband ordered, because he’s like, I just really wanted an old chip cookie. And I’m like, okay, like, so maybe, you know, someday it’ll expand into something else. Who knows?


Jacqueline Kincer  22:51

I love that. That’s so neat. Yeah, I, I think that you know, anything that makes our mothering journeys a little more enjoyable is always awesome. And to your point about your product, can’t do it all. I don’t do it all either. Like, it’s not like you work with me, and then that’s it, I’m going to tell you to go, you know, get this product or, you know, see this person or whatever, right, so, yeah. Now, I


Cassandra Shuck  23:20

wish I will say I wish that the industry was a little bit more like that. Because I mean, I don’t view it as competition by any stretch, I don’t think that that’s what it is, I think, honestly, you need multiple solutions. And someone could say the exact same thing to you one day, as someone said to you the other and you may just be not in the position to receive it or to the position to understand and implement to so I think it’s so important to have that, that team that squad that that support, you know, whatever you want to call it, kind of following you around, especially in early motherhood and Amen.


Jacqueline Kincer  23:55

Hmm. Yes. And, you know, we’re, we’re talking about it, but we’re also kind of it’s in the background, just about what you said there, about mindset, you know, way of looking at things, whether it’s as an entrepreneur or even on, you know, experiencing breastfeeding difficulties. You know, our mindset towards things is really important. And lots of times a big hurdle for anything in life are limiting beliefs. And I know that’s really up your alley, and I’d love for you to just speak to that.


Cassandra Shuck  24:31

Yeah, absolutely. So I got into that area, kind of by mistake to be honest with you, kind of haphazardly through my marketing agency. So I would be working with an amazing powerhouse, you know, client who I could just see going so far in the entrepreneurship and entrepreneur space, whatever their industry is. And I would just see self sabotage, I would see perfectionism I would see, you know, women being scared of actually stepping out and being visible and beings seeing and being heard and having their story being heard. So for the first seven years of owning my marketing agency, I would build you a website. But then I would also tackle a lot of your limiting beliefs and a lot of your perfectionism tendencies and a lot of spots where people were sensitive to visibility alongside your website, a not knowing that there was this was a whole modality coaching, spiritual mentoring, whatever you want to call it, not knowing there was an actual name for it, it was just something that I couldn’t not say when I was when I was seeing these things. And that actually spiraled out of my marketing agency into my coaching practice.


Jacqueline Kincer  25:36

Hmm, yeah. And it’s funny, because you and I have kind of fallen into this similarly, where I do that with people who I would call my clients or patients for breastfeeding work. But I’ve also done business coaching for lactation consultants and whatnot. Because mostly because they asked me to, and it would be very practical things like, Well, how do I take insurance? Or how do I do this, but like, you’re saying, you could build this beautiful website, but if someone doesn’t take that and actually run with it in the way that they need to, if the if the website isn’t the only missing piece, and they’re relying on that? So, you know, I would see that right. And I’m sure you saw that a billion times where someone would say, Okay, well, I just need to become a network with that, and and then like, my practice will soar. No, that’s no, that’s


Cassandra Shuck  26:27

my was generally around money, I would have the woman that could transform literally like, I mean, for one, I had a photographer who actually worked with a lot of breast cancer patients would literally transform their lives, like how they saw themselves, their self confidence, everything, hey, you have two options here, you can charge for that and make money. Or you can set it up as a nonprofit, she didn’t want to do either. She didn’t want to actually put a name to her business. And like, girlfriend, like what you are doing is literally life changing for these women for you know, their relationships, for their confidence for every part of them of who they are. I was like, why don’t you wanna put a name? She’s like, well, you know, if I put a name, it becomes official, and then I have to do the business stuff. And I’m not good at the business stuff. Because I don’t like finance. They don’t like numbers. And I’m like, oh, but like, so as I’m building your website, I’m getting these stories. And that’s why even though the spiritual work that I do is always through the lens of business, because that’s where people are, generally for me willing to pour out their heart and tell me their stories and their fears and what they’re scared of and what they don’t like about themselves. But I was like, no, like, what you’re doing right now is keeping yourself so small. Like I said, why? Like, let’s break it down to brass tacks. Like, why are you doing this? And she’s like, I want to change lives. I was like, so the five people who know about you now, if it became 50, would you rather change 50 people’s lives or five? And she’s like, Oh, 50 Absolutely. She’s like, or 500. And I’m like, now we’re talking now I can help you. Right? It’s funny. It’s all that was all in the lens of building a website. Wow, that someone came to me and said, Oh, I’m having this issue I need it was, oh, I need a website. So wow, a thing I need help with breastfeeding or oh, I need this. I need I want a better one a better lactation consultant practice.


Jacqueline Kincer  28:19

Yeah. And I think that’s huge in in birth work, where, and I’m sure you can relate with your doula work, like you just said, I would do it for free. I have, I have done my job for free too many times. But I can’t continue to help the numbers of people that I want to help if I always do it for free. Unless I make it a business called a nonprofit, like it has to be. There has to be some revenue coming in to generate the work that we do. And I think it’s really important for people to understand that and for professionals to really let that sink in, like I, you know, time value, all the things that someone’s able to provide to help fast track a solution for you, whether it’s a website or breastfeeding problem, you know, that’s really worth something. And, you know, conveying the value, I guess, is just know what we’re trying to get out here is what’s so important. And there’s a lot of people I get contacted constantly by people who either maybe want to become a lactation consultant or a doula or they want to start a lactation cookie business actually hear from a lot of people like that. And they asked me I don’t mean to sound harsh, but they asked all the wrong questions. Yeah. They love to ask how I got started, which I understand what our questions coming from, but I wouldn’t recommend the way I got


Cassandra Shuck  29:45

it say what they were all right. Well, it was 11 years of childhood trauma and then I dropped out of high school and like just don’t ask me that question guys who if anyone’s listening to the podcast, it does contact do not ask that question.


Jacqueline Kincer  29:57

Right someday asked if you could do it all. over again, how would you do it?


Cassandra Shuck  30:01

Amen? That’s a much better question because I would probably basically do nothing for the first 23 years of my life that I lived through.


Jacqueline Kincer  30:09

So, there you go. And I think actually, it’s really important for I’m so glad that you’re openly sharing about the trauma, because I think that that is a hurdle that comes up that people don’t realize is that there’s trauma issues that are sort of holding them back for lack of a better phrase. And I know, I’ve learned to recognize that now. But I did not recognize that in the beginning for a very long time. And maybe you could speak to that a bit, actually, since you have so much experience with it, and then supporting people through that as well.


Cassandra Shuck  30:45

Yeah, absolutely. So I have a theory and it’s been done by it’s not just mine, scientists have also proven it, that the body keeps score, and the body knows the body holds on to the trauma and the patterns that we grew up in. And that could be things that actually happened to us and things that are more first hand accounts that we’ve experienced. But it could also be a third party trauma, where you know, your parents or your sister or someone else, you know, when was really, really close to you experienced, you may be harboring some of their stuff, so to speak. So a lot of times, this is where the limiting beliefs where the perfectionism where the identity crisis comes into play, where the white knuckle like I have to control everything comes into play, is based upon these stories, that either real made up fat, like experienced, unexperienced, whatever the case may be, our body holds on to us and tries to keep us safe. So body is genius. And the brain is genius. And it literally is, tries to keep us safe and tries to keep us in balance and to keep us in homeostasis, homeostasis. So all of these stories are meant to protect us. And when we are doing things that are out of the comfort zone out of the normal, starting a business, putting money putting massive amounts of money towards a project that is, you know, our passion project, having a baby. All of these things are not normal, they’re normal, but they’re not. They’re not they’re not safe. They are they trigger these responses in the body. And that’s really where people will not do the things that they have that gut check intuition piece that they know that they’re supposed to do in their in their bottom of their heart. That’s when they’ll self doubt, that’s when they won’t actually do the do the damn thing.


Jacqueline Kincer  32:28

Huh, yes, yes, you put that so? So well, I’ve I’ve seen that that hesitation, you know, that you’re talking about, in fact, I just was talking with a colleague the other day, and they were telling me, you know, my community’s asking for me to create this clinic with like, dentist, lactation consultant, you know, have a whole thing. I just, I just I don’t know, I just haven’t pulled the trigger on it. You know, I can’t seem to bring myself to do it. And, you know, there’s probably something going on underneath there. Right? You know, what’s the right thing? People are literally begging you to do it? You would you have a very viable business model? And then you’re like, Ah, I don’t know.


Cassandra Shuck  33:09

Right? Yeah. And a lot of times, it’s I think it’s a heart mind intuition piece. So the heart could be saying yes, like, I should do this. I mean, it would serve a lot of people it would, you know, cause me to grow. The intuition is like, hold on a second sister, like if you do this, and you know, the chair again, tries to keep you tries, tries to keep you safe, that’s what the body does. And the mind could be like, well, logically, if I had 40, people ask and 30 people sign up, and they get $30, it’s $9,000. So you have all these different pieces. And if you actually tune in and you do this, and you are self aware, and you are conscious of what your body had, how your body is responding, it can feel like you have three different personalities really, really quiet to see like, what is actually truth in those different kind of, say stations and in those different patterns that come up, like what is actual truth? Yeah,


Jacqueline Kincer  34:02

that’s, that’s really a great way to ground yourself and to really figure out because I think people sometimes go quickly to well, you know, I just I have anxiety or I have ADHD or whatever, but it really might be this kind of doubling or tripling what I truly have. No, he knows. No, but you know, it’s like a like a tornado of just, you know, conflict in us right? And we can call that conflict. We just


Cassandra Shuck  34:36

had a times as well in the work that I do people that’s when they look external. That’s when they’ll go to their friend circle over there, go to a coach or they’ll go to the internet and go to Dr. Google and start searching like, Am I Am I crazy if that does that? So that’s what I think people do start looking in external for the solution even though if they spent time and if they got quiet. Do you have the answers you You don’t need, you don’t need Dr. Google or a coach or a spiritual leader like we can get you there faster. But I’m going to basically send you right back around for you to go consult yourself.


Jacqueline Kincer  35:10

Hmm. Yeah, I like that. There’s, I see that in my work a lot, you know, with breastfeeding, and women, kind of following their own intuition and tuning into their babies. And then they go online. And they’re like, well, this person said this. And then this person said this and


Cassandra Shuck  35:30

what to expect when I’m expecting said this. Process, they’ll say what the actual labor and delivery. I mean, if you I think, honestly, the intuition of a mother is so dialed in for those nine months when it comes to nutrition and exercise, movement and sleep. And it’s so dialed in during the labor process, and it’s so dialed in during the the breast feeding process, if they let it. Most of the time, I feel like that’s when women shut it off, and not actually fully let the intuition take over and say, No, I’m gonna feed my baby in this position versus this position.


Jacqueline Kincer  36:07

Hmm, I know that you’re right about that, because I experienced a moment when I was pregnant with my son. And it was kind of a defining moment. And there were like, little echoes for a week or two, where I realized because I was a busy stockbroker, and I was working, and I remember one of my co workers, a male coworker, she and his wife had had a baby a few months before, and he said, you know, a lot of people, you know, say, well, once the baby comes, you know, you’re not gonna get any sleep and this and that. He’s like, Oh, no, no, no, no, he’s like, you make that baby fit into your life. You are the one who decides, you create the schedule. And I was like, yeah, right on, like her, you know, like, that’s right, I’ll be in charge. And then I, you know, is doing like Bradley method, birth classes. And I was reading and Ben just thought I was at like, prenatal yoga or something. And I was tuning in and like that, just all like, intuitively hit me. And I was like, Ah, I think that that’s not how it’s going to go. I have a choice. I’m like, at a crossroads. Like I realized, like, I can either go down this path of like, flow and intuition, and just a total radical overhaul from what I’ve been doing, and surrender and grace. Exactly. Or, I could just try to power through and be very detached from my baby, and kind of just worry about my life. And I realized it was it was divergent, it was one or the other. And I had to choose, and I kind of I knew, I knew the first one intuitive path was the right one, but I still kind of hesitated. And ultimately, it was like, Okay, forget it. And it was actually the best choice I made before the baby came, because when he was born, I mean, maybe initially, no, that’s probably why he just didn’t sleep. And I went into it. I didn’t know I took like a breastfeeding class, whatever. But I didn’t, I wouldn’t say felt like I had any expectations other than it was probably just going to be really hard and draining, and I’d figure it out. And going in with that expectation really set me up for success. Because it was only It wasn’t until later when I got into like, starting to help moms much like yourself, that I really, oh, okay. There’s a lot of schools of thought out there about how your baby should sleep and eat and all these things that I was like, caught. I didn’t read that in the beginning. So for everyone who’s listening, I think you’re giving some really sage advice, which is like, you know, we can kind of fight our own intuitions or we can surrender and go along with it.


Cassandra Shuck  38:44

And I feel like it’s for you, it was based on your experience with the coachee for a second, but it was based on your experience as a stockbroker, if you were feminine and in flow, and full of grace, and love and ease, like, you would not probably have been a successful stock broker. Like you had to fall into that masculine paradigm of like, it’s my timeline, I’m going to get it done now. And it’s going to be this this this way. And I’m going to be super, super pragmatic. And I’m going to have my checklists and my to do and everything’s going to be perfect. Like, that is the makeup of who you were. So for you to go against the grain. You could have easily said no, I’m gonna stick with it. This is how this baby’s gonna be raised. Actually, you were able to flip that switch, which not a lot of people are I mean, I that’s a lot of people are but it’s generally not a switch flipping, it’s a little bit more of a tug and release than a tug and release and three steps forward two steps back.


Jacqueline Kincer  39:38

I agree and do do you see in your work with people that without someone like you how they can get a little lost in their sort of, you know, indecision or, or guilt or they kind of stay stuck, like, you know, sounds like that would be a common thing.


Cassandra Shuck  39:57

It definitely is a common thing, and I think a lot Other times, we’re, myself included. I mean, I have a series of coaches and spiritual mentors and guides and people that I work with, because a lot of times, we’re too close to ourselves and we can’t really see our own stuff. So like I was having an issue, writing a book, which I have a book publishing contract, like everything is in line, like, all I just need to do is literally sit down and write. And I was getting in my own way now, like, some of the externals, like just maybe like, just sit down and write Cass like carve out time, do it in the morning, do it in the afternoon, but I’m like, I don’t want to this isn’t right, this isn’t right, I haven’t fully healed from this, etc, etc. So we always need those people to come alongside us and be like, you’re not doing it, and why aren’t you doing it and get to the root cause of it, versus just the, you know, kind of doing it on our own, mustering white knuckling through controlling through?


Jacqueline Kincer  40:55

Hmm, yeah, yeah, I, oh, you’re speaking my language. I love it. I got a question earlier on Instagram, it was about food intolerances and the baby and I understand where the questions coming from. But then it’s like, but if I don’t work with you to figure out why the problem is happening, I don’t know the right solution to tell you to fix it. So like you’re saying, no matter what we encounter in life, if someone just tries to give you this old, just do this. The reason why you can’t do it is what we need to uncover, right. So it’s like, like, this mom was like, she does do an elimination diet. Maybe, I don’t know. Maybe that’s helpful. Maybe


Cassandra Shuck  41:40

  1. That’s an elimination diet. I know that they get did. So


Jacqueline Kincer  41:43

what do you define as an elimination diet?


Cassandra Shuck  41:45

Exactly. Have you done an elimination diet? No, no, I totally get it. Yeah. So it’s no different than that. Absolutely. Some parallels speak, it’s again shirking their responsibility, turning the questioning back to back to the person and getting them to be like desert elimination diet feel good to do you maybe know that when you eat dairy to something flare up, like, let’s maybe not go to the we have a tendency, I think, as human beings also to go to the extremes. And to slap all the band aids on trying to do all the things the most extreme version of it without actually taking the baby steps. And a lot of times, I’m like the baby, step one would have worked. Like we didn’t have to go to polar opposite, like, eating only greens for 30 days, then adding berries for 30 days. Like we’d have to go that far. If we just maybe took dairy out, like


Jacqueline Kincer  42:35

yes, I Yes, I do think there is an over. overachiever kind of thing going on. Yeah, I see that a lot. And it’s interesting, because you said about your own breastfeeding experience where and you picked up on a couple friends kind of intuited. You know, if I tell her that she can’t do it, that means she’ll do everything to make it work. Yeah. What was that journey? Like for you? How did you really get to that point of, you know, you, you recognize that the trauma was playing a role in things, but you know, you were not. You knew, like, No, I’m still gonna make milk. Yeah. So


Cassandra Shuck  43:15

what that process looked like, for me was a surrendering and allowing my husband to help me, which was not an easy feat, especially after kind of having been through my loss and my past, to actually like, admit weakness, and admit that I needed help was a huge piece of that kind of puzzle. The next one was, literally I said, I did the breastfeeding diet, I would literally print out the sheets from all the lactation consultants of like, breastfeeding power, super foods. And like, that would be my grocery list. And like, if it’s not on the list, it’s not going in my body. Wow. Which gets really old really quickly at like, you know, eight weeks in when you’re like, if I have one more piece of salmon, with sauteed, spinach, all of extra virgin olive oil, you know, tumeric sprinkled on, and whatever I like do is just like if it wasn’t on the list, it wasn’t going in my body. So that was another piece is when I actually kind of worked with my husband and said, like, what can I do and then also went to friends and went to I work with a lot of lactation consultants from around the world and have a lot of girlfriends who are in New Zealand and Australia. And I was like, I look at what you guys do. And I look at the holistic and the natural approach and the fact that you guys want to breastfeed for two years, and that’s what I want. Like what is it that you do differently versus here in the States? So it was me literally surrendering and asking for help in the in the base most basic of senses. Hmm. And then, honestly, with me, having my husband bake cookies for mixing like I just need something that tastes good. Like, I just I love salmon. I still love salmon. But I’m like after eight weeks of salmon breakfast, lunch and dinner. I was like, I hate salmon.


Jacqueline Kincer  44:57

I yeah, I could see that for sure. And I like that you thought about what your goal was, and then asking people who have achieved that goal, what to do behind? Yeah, I see it. And it’s, it’s, you know, this isn’t to poopoo every anything, you know, there’s there’s, you know, time in a place for all manners of advice and whatnot. But I’ve seen celebrities who have children, and they like to just give their unsolicited advice about how, you know, they brought in their milk so fast and whatever stored on this extra milk. And then there’s all these followers that ask them questions and whatever. And I’m like, Yeah, but that person in their previous three kids only brush them for three months? Like, why would you be asking them for advice? So it’s just this, like you said, kind of about the cookie stuff, too, like a short term, you know? Right? We don’t want to, you got to think about like, who is giving this advice? Like, where, where are they coming from? And do they understand your goal, because


Cassandra Shuck  46:01

that’s always kind of done throughout career and trajectory is, I’m going to align myself with someone who I’m wanting advice from or who I like their ideal lifestyle. Like, I could work with a business coach, that bus is, but you know, 160 hours a week and doesn’t sleep and doesn’t have a spouse or kids or go on vacation, like, Sure, he could probably teach me or he or she could teach me a thing or two. But I’m like, if I don’t envy you, and if I don’t like want your life and want to absorb what you’re doing. And really, if it doesn’t resonate with me, I’m like, why would I ask you for advice? And same with the women who work for me, I’m like, I’m like most of the women I work with, have kids have a family? Love the fact that I encourage people to take 12 weeks off per year, like, these are things that are core values of mine that like, that’s my tribe, that’s who I’m going to call it that. So I’m going to work with that. So I’m going to support


Jacqueline Kincer  46:53

hmm, yeah, I think that’s a bit rare, right to find that level of support for families. I mean, I think about so many women that I work with that are struggling with returning to the workforce after having a baby. And especially in these COVID times where women have been so much more impacted in job loss than men. Mothers are not, you know, they just have been, but mostly because their mothers because it’s kind of like we still default as a society. And not that there’s anything wrong with that, that that can be fine. But it’s not fine. If that’s not what you want, right. So you’re, you’re the mom, you’re the woman, you make less. So it’s okay to kind of sacrifice your job. And you can take care of the kids at home and whatever. But there’s a lot of women out there who are just really struggling with that. And they’re they’re feeling like, at least I’ve heard from them that they’re feeling like, I have to perform extra, like they’re worried that maybe I shouldn’t even take a pumping break, because that’s gonna look negative. So what advice do you have for women that face that struggle of like, do I go back to work? What does it look like when I do? Because they’re just, you know, we’re, we’re trying, we’re trying so hard to do all the things.


Cassandra Shuck  48:10

So I think defining your own set of rules is kind of the biggest thing and your own, like play your own playbook. So like, yes, it may see, you may think it’s looks bad to take a pumping break, or whatever the case it is. But if that’s your goal, and that is what you want to be in that as what you want to look back on, is that you successfully breastfed or pumped or whatever the case may be for you. Like create your own playbook. Like maybe it means maybe. And again, this goes back to the kind of the stories that we create. Because I guarantee if that woman saying, Well, I don’t want to take a pumping break, she’s creating a story that she’ll get passed over for promotion, or her male caught like we always again, we always kind of create these these stories. So I would say create your own playbook and look at where you can you have two choices. You can either choose something for yourself where you can abandon something for yourself. So when you say and make a statement of I’m going to like for me I’m going to use as an example breastfeed come hell or high water Ain’t nobody telling me I’m not going to. That’s a choice that I made. I could have easily said, This is too hard. I don’t want to do it. I know, this is my path. I know, this is what I want to do in my gut. But if there’s just too many things stacked against me, that’s an abandonment piece. So I would make a list as to I’m going to choose these things and keep keep them like your core values. Keep them like your personal mission statement. And choose only things that fall in alignment and fall into congruence with with what you what you say. I’m a huge fan of the Bible. Make your yes mean yes and your no me No.


Jacqueline Kincer  49:36

Hmm. Yeah, and I love that you thrown the title of your podcast in there, which is such a great title.


Cassandra Shuck  49:46

stacked against I would use that term like 10 times a day. I was like, What’s my podcast name gonna be? So completely unintentionally, but yes. Yeah, I


Jacqueline Kincer  49:56

actually think that’s an issue that comes up for anybody who’s thinking of starting A business two is like, what do we name it? And we get kind of hung up on that too, you know, or or if it’s a podcast or a product or whatever, right? So there’s a lot of those sort of getting in your own way, kind of issues that that come up, like you’ve said, and I do have a question for you. Because I get this question. Maybe your answers better than mine. And I’m going to try and piece together kind of elements of the many times I’ve been asked this, but people say, Well, yeah, that’s all well, and great, that you just persevered. And you tried, and you had access to the resources. But that’s a lot of privilege. And that’s kind of the gist of it is is the question, you know, well, well, of course, you were able to persevere because you had x, y and z. What about those who don’t? And so, you know, it’s never, it’s never an easy topic, to address. But I feel like it’s one we should really talk about. Because I do feel like sometimes people get this sense of listening to people like you and I and go, Well, these, you know, these women had it better than me, or they don’t know my story, or they don’t know my situation. And talking to that would be really wonderful.


Cassandra Shuck  51:17

That is a hard question. And I’m sure your answer is far superior to what’s gonna come out of my mouth. But I mean, honestly, I think that’s where the power and story comes from. So like, if you didn’t know anything about me, and you didn’t know my background with trauma, and you didn’t know physical, mental sexual abuse, and you didn’t know I had a loss, and you didn’t know any of that, because I was hiding it. And I had shame in that. Of course, you’re gonna look at me and be like, well, she’s an entrepreneur, she can pump whatever she wants to, she can be on a call and pump. It’s her business. But it’s when you actually look at all of the things of who the person is. We all have stuff stacked against us. We all have stuff that we have to overcome. We all have challenges. We all have naysayers, people who disagree with us, people who don’t like us, people who say, she’s better than me who whatever the case may be. And it’s if we let that come through, and we let that into our body. And if we let then if we continue to perpetuate that,


Jacqueline Kincer  52:13

of course. Hmm, no, I actually think your explanation is really good. Because when I’ve gone through some of the hardest stuff in my life, and you can experience dissociation, which I’m sure you’ve experienced, and I would be like walking through like the grocery store and looking around and going. Do I do all these people have it as bad as me? Or am I just dying inside over here because of what’s going on. And if they had any idea what was going on, like, like, I’m just trying to not cry and break down right now, you know, and


Cassandra Shuck  52:49

go to TJ Maxx yesterday, because I have a three year old who’s sassy AF, like, wonder if all these other kids are just so much? Good.


Jacqueline Kincer  53:01

I think there’s a lot to be said, for the parts of ourselves that we hide. Absolutely. We are all hiding a lot of stuff. Scary stuff sometimes. And it’s not like we’re bad people just you know, things have happened that have affected us things are happening. And, you know, no one in this world right now seems to be going through an easy time either. And so I think the more that we just acknowledge that and it doesn’t need to be competitive, like, well, I’m worse off than you. Well, you know, it’s


Cassandra Shuck  53:32

your trauma, they used to do a talk with stages and been been conferences were a thing. And it was comparing big T little T and where I have you know, sexual abuse in my history is my big T, your big T could have not been being picked from you know, from for kickball in grade school. I it’s not my position to judge or think differently for you, because you had a different trauma experience than me, if you still have a reaction and emotional physical reaction to that. I’m not one to judge for that. And I shouldn’t and no one should be to be honest


Jacqueline Kincer  54:05

with you. Yeah, in the in the brain. You know, it’s it’s the way the wiring changes in the brain. And we’ve neurons fire because of trauma. It’s the same mechanism, no matter what the trauma was. And I learned that like going through my car accident where I was like, I thought this was something war vets went through like PTSD, like how come I’m having these symptoms, you know, like this and to understand that, and it’s not a choice. So, you know, I think when people want to talk about, you know, anything related to the discussion of, you know, privilege or social justice or whatever, I think we’re all pretty clear that these things aren’t a choice, but that there’s a lot of surface judgment both ways, like, well, because I am a person of color because I live in this area because this is my employment status. Now it’s more well known that I’m at a disadvantage and that can very well be true, right? But then on the flip side, you don’t, we can’t we can’t just judge you on that and say, well, you’ll always be at a disadvantage. But then on the flip side, you’re judging other people and saying, well, they’ll never be at a disadvantage because they have the right color skin, they live in a good area. They’re an entrepreneur, they’re whatever, right? So it’s, it’s just very nuanced. I would like for the conversation to get more nuanced, like what we’re doing, because behind behind every picture is a person. So I’m glad that you said that. And also, there’s always, you know, I think something that crosses the lines that I think would be good for us to chat about. And this would be resourcefulness. resourcefulness, I think makes all the difference. So sometimes people come to me for the coaching and business coaching aspect of things. And even when it comes to breastfeeding, like, how do you know so much like, how do you know what to do when or how did you know to go here to start your business or to do this or I could never. And I’m like, No one taught me that I didn’t grow up with an entrepreneur family. I grew up with a single mom who worked full time and I was a latchkey kid at home. And like, thankfully, didn’t get in a bunch of trouble or whatever. But like I could have, you know, and there was no example for me, there was no course in school that I was magically presented with. Thankfully, there’s the internet, but I don’t know, my mom taught me maybe some core skills as a kid, which was like, to me gotten encyclopedias that like if I did my, I don’t know, if it was like chores, or whatever it was, like, once a month, we could not buy a new volume of the encyclopedia set.


Cassandra Shuck  56:40

And I was like, just they were on our bookshelves too, as a kid,


Jacqueline Kincer  56:43

right? Everyone, like our age or older had an encyclopedia set. But it wasn’t like, I had a work for that. Like, we didn’t just have the money laying around to go by that, you know, and I guess maybe I could have gone to library but I didn’t really know how to access one. And so it was just, you know, people try to say this, but I’m like resourcefulness is what it’s come down to somehow, something in me is able to just do that. And so you know, what, what would you say about resourcefulness?


Cassandra Shuck  57:13

I love that you say resourcefulness, because I use the word scrappy all the time. That’s more my style and more my speed. That’s like you have to do and I think it gets a bad rap. And I think it I think that word has some negative connotations as to as to you know what it means. But for me, it’s like, if you’re not scrappy, you’re not going to get it done. Like you have to, like, there are times when I’m like, I’ve had to patch stuff together. I’ve had to use duct tape to hang up a business I like I like I will get it done no matter what. And I think that for me that I know, that comes from my childhood, and really having to I mean, for adverse childhood, adverse childhood scores, I mean, I’m literally off the charts, like I don’t even exist on that chart. So I think for me, it was if I wanted something, and if I knew I wanted something, I would have to figure it out. So that’s kind of been my MO throughout all of life is no matter what I will figure it out. That’s probably why, you know, this is a podcast, but Jacqueline can see I have probably 90 books on one bookshelf behind me and I have multiple of those all throughout my life. I’m like, I will go buy a book on it, and I will figure it out.


Jacqueline Kincer  58:22

Yeah, yeah, I I did not have the childhood you had not even close. And, you know, I think that we have that common quality, right? Where you just, you just have to figure it out. Like right now. I mean, you’ve already had your products company going for a while, but I’m starting that side of my company. And it’s, there’s been delays, you know, there’s things that come up, and I’m like, I’ve never done this before. I don’t know how to do this, but I will figure it out. I will hop on the phone with support, I will, you know, finding to video I will ask a friend who knows someone who knows someone and you know, you just you just do it, I spent a I think I called six different banks yesterday trying to get some information. And I finally found like the one guy who knew and like there’s just right, you just you got to do these things. But I think it has to do with like, putting yourself out there or trusting yourself. And there’s just deeper things right.


Cassandra Shuck  59:21

And I do think that there are people in your life that you can cross paths with, be it coaches or mentors or, you know, parents and things of that nature that you can actually ask some of these questions for. But it’s also then up to you to source them and define them and to nurture the relationship with them and to, you know, know the questions to ask kind of going back to one of our earlier conversations and know what know what your goals and know what your goals are and who you are and what you want to accomplish. So again, it’s a lovely combination of personal development and self discovery with scrappiness.


Jacqueline Kincer  59:58

I like that and I I think that there’s something about becoming a mom for the first time that requires that of us. Because I mean, you can read books, you can ask friends, you’ve got your parents there, maybe, but doing it is different, right?


Cassandra Shuck  1:00:18

100% That’s why I love honestly working with my mom entrepreneurs and because I’m like, if one of my women, like, I could have two people who say that they’re gonna do the exact same thing, if one of them’s a mom, and you know, one of them’s a guy, my mom’s gonna get it done, I’m just gonna get it done, the guy might get it dad, or it might come out a little different, or you might change his mind and do something else, which is fine. But my woman’s gonna, my woman’s gonna get it done within a couple of weeks, if not sooner. Once they have once they put their mind to it. And once they once you’ve had that experience, I think of, of gestation and of pregnancy and of growing up another human. It’s honestly like a switch flips. And you’re like, there’s nothing I can do. Huh?


Jacqueline Kincer  1:01:02

Yeah, I’ve had so many clients say that to me, like it even you know, a long, you know, horrible drawn out birth, right. But they’re like, but I did it. And what I wanted, it was traumatic, but I did it, I survived. And I’m taking care of this baby. They’re like, holy, oh, I can do anything. And that’s a pretty cool feeling. So I love to hear that. I think what you just said is actually really inspiring, because I think there’s a lot of people who are listening are like, I have my own business, right one start my own business. And they’re like, but you know, if I’m a mom, and I have less time, I think that is maybe a big one. Right? How am I supposed to do that? Am I going to be successful? And you’re saying, These people are actually killing it and doing really well,


Cassandra Shuck  1:01:50

really, I mean, just think about it, if you if you’re a mom, and you this will resonate. So with so many moms out there, you have a process. So if I wake up in the morning, and I need to do the dishes, and I need to pack out lunch, if I need to do at 10 other things. You’ll sit there and make a list. And then you’ll go back and be like, Okay, I’m going to make the lunch first because I’m going to dirty some knives and some utensils and things. So then I’m going to actually do the dishes after so I can actually do all of the dishes because I’m not going to half assed dishes. And then, like, you’ll sit there with a process. And that is how our brains actually are programmed, I believe as moms. So when it comes to business, we can do that same thing with the list. We can get it done.


Jacqueline Kincer  1:02:30

Huh? Oh, it’s so good.


Cassandra Shuck  1:02:32

That’s true. Oh, you’re like, I’m not gonna feed my baby this bottle and use spoons and then do the dishes, do the dishes beforehand, because then there’ll be extra dishes in the sink. And then I’m doing dishes twice. And if I’m doing dishes twice, like, this is where this is guarantee. This is the way our brains were wired.


Jacqueline Kincer  1:02:47

Ah, so so true, right? Yeah, I think like,


Cassandra Shuck  1:02:52

Yeah, you look at a business plan and go, Okay, well, I know, I need financing before I can fund these products. So I’m gonna go to this bank. And then if that bank doesn’t give me the answer I want I’m gonna go to the other one. And then if that doesn’t work, I have this team of angel investors that I used to be friends with it because I used to be a stockbroker. It’s parallels exactly the same thing.


Jacqueline Kincer  1:03:10

It is it is and you know, just, I feel like I keep talking about myself. I shouldn’t be that so much on this episode. But I was going to share a story when I went to my son was 18 months old, and I was offered a an interview position for what would have been a promotion. And I went to the interview, and you know, everyone’s, like, not married. While no, maybe the manager was married. But you know, they didn’t have kids and you know, all hardworking stockbrokers. I knew the manager back from when I worked before. And one of the questions they asked me in the interview was, how are you? You’ve had this employment break for 18 months? Well, how are you going to be able to jump back into that? How are you going to be managed? How are you gonna be able to manage all the things when you’re out of out of the habit of being in these processes or, you know, doing all the things you used to do? And I was like, Is that like a joke? Because what I’ve been doing for last 18 months is miles harder than what I ever did before I had a baby. Like, let me tell you about my day. And it was like, stuff like that, like the process of dishes like what you’re saying where I’m like, I learned how to prioritize how to get crap done, like, work super efficiently. And like I could forecast and see ahead, all the other things that would need to be done like, What are you talking about?


Cassandra Shuck  1:04:39

You drop the perfectionism as a mom, because there’s totally no way that you’re gonna be able to scour the sink and have everything perfect because someone else is gonna need some sort of bottle or spoon or applesauce. Whatever the case may be. Always all that I believe honestly motherhood is just such a beautiful like training ground boot camp for partnership,


Jacqueline Kincer  1:05:00

huh? Oh my gosh. Yes. Is Wow. Your bio was like a coming home moment to hear you say that? Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, I think on that note, I, I would love to hear just any final thoughts you have to wrap things up or, you know, anything else you want to add or share about whatever we’ve talked about, or something we haven’t? I don’t


Cassandra Shuck  1:05:27

know. I mean, honestly, we’ve covered a lot. We didn’t know where it was gonna go. But it went all over the place.


Jacqueline Kincer  1:05:31

I love where I went, this is like I needed this. This is some good word medicine today.


Cassandra Shuck  1:05:37

Good. I’m so glad no, this is, this is what I’m put on this earth to do. And I’m just super thankful that I get to have conversations that you know, again, being multi passionate on paper, being a doula a marketing agency owner, a speaker, a writer, a mom, a wife, none of these things make sense on paper. And it looks like I’m being pulled in 45 different directions, which I am. But to have these conversations and to pull it all together, it lets me have reconfirmation of the path that I’m on and that it is okay to be multi passionate, it is okay to infuse all of your personalities and loves and, and you know, pieces together to to actually show up as fully you which is, which is what it’s about.


Jacqueline Kincer  1:06:21

It is what it’s about. I’m really glad you you said that. And I think that you’re giving permission to anyone listening to just follow that. And what I heard from you during this interview is really that this is your center, this is your place. This is your zone like this is really what you are so, so good at. And I love that we could weave in a billion different topics, and you just handle them all like a total boss.


Cassandra Shuck  1:06:52

I appreciate that.


Jacqueline Kincer  1:06:54

I appreciate you. And I’m so glad that we got a chance to have you on the podcast. And it’ll be so fun for me to write the show notes because it features so many topics. But gosh, I just think so many people of all different backgrounds. We’ll get a lot out of this. So thank you, Cassandra, thank you so much for having me.


Jacqueline Kincer  1:07:17

Did you know Most moms stop breastfeeding in the first month postpartum. I believe succeeding at breastfeeding means having the right mindset. In fact, studies show that the number one factor that determines breastfeeding success is commitment. Which is why I’ve created my incredible audio download of breastfeeding affirmations where I give you actionable mantras so you can breastfeed your baby with confidence and peace of mind. And best of all, it’s free. To get access to this audio and PDF. Simply visit holistic And you can get started right now.



Cassandra Shuck is an entrepreneurial guide and self-described serial entrepreneur who started her marketing agency 11 years ago. She got her roots in the corporate world and began her motherhood journey then. These days, Cassandra is busy with motherhood, running a lactation cookie business, hosting an amazing podcast, and being an incredible coach for fellow entrepreneurs.

In this episode, you’ll hear:

  • All about self sabotage, perfectionism, and limiting beliefs and how they hold us back in life (and even breastfeeding)
  • Cassandra’s personal motherhood and breastfeeding journey, and how she overcame the many challenges she faced along the way
  • How trauma affects us on every level of our lives
  • Incredible suggestions for balancing motherhood, breastfeeding, and entrepreneurship (and working too!)